[Discussion from Facebook] Archive Part II

Philson Wong
October 30 at 9:12pm
If same-sex marriage were to be legal, then next, we'd be arguing over marrying more than one spouse. Soon the world will be corrupted in today's standards, while still saying that everyone has right to do so, and it's only correct. Not everyone has to have rights to do everything there is.

When people thought the world was flat, it was because they had no knowledge about the Earth being round. We have a larger scope of knowledge, and we're very conscious of the things we value today.

Sky TheWolf
October 30 at 9:34pm

Very much so. And Kyle, though it's true that the majority's thoughts aren't always correct, isn't that the purpose of having the vote on 8 today? What is the meaning of right to you? Is it your own personal opinions, your standards based on morals, or just the "correct" thing to do?

Either way right and wrong are delusional and you can't always be right or wrong. That's why California didn't choose whether to keep 8 or not without the public's consent. They want to see what most people, given the correct knowledge and chances, think is right.

If you don't trust the majority most of the time as what we all want to do, how can you trust any votes, any polls, any elections? For all you know they could be wrong too! If you were the majority, would you like to be questioned constantly because people think the majority shouldn't be trusted? Give everyone a chance and stop going off topic into the sidelines like this. Remember, the main topic is yes or no on Proposition 8, not whether majority rules is a corrupt system or not.

Kyle Kneeland
October 30 at 9:35pm

That was completely on the point in justifying the judges' desicions. Of course people can't marry animals, which is why I said people should be able to marry anyone if they both consent; animals cant consent. It doesn't matter if the world's corrupted in today's standards tomorrow, it only matters if tomorrow the world's corrupted in tomorrow's standards. If tomorrow's people decide it's ok, then its ok. You have knoweledge of what happens when gays are allowed to marry: absolutely nothing, except that gays married and for several months people supporting them stopped campaigning for them.

Sky TheWolf
October 30 at 9:38pm

On the contrare, Kyle, animals can consent. You can be tried now of not giving animals a fair chance. What is your definition of marriage Kyle? I want to ask you that before we continue our debate.

Sky TheWolf
October 30 at 9:42pm

Now for Sumita's views, put on here by yours truly because, for some reason, she cannot comment directly on here at this moment:

"And I'm glad you put the second part. It makes sense, and I'm sure a lot of people have that opinion.

But if they got married, how would it affect you? It might bother you a bit, but you can just ask them not to do anything in front of you. There are tons of things about everyone that bother me, and I ... Read Morejust ask them to not. That's not a problem, is it?"

"They won't be told that traditional marriages and gay marriages are the same, because they aren't, and everyone knows that. So if the child asks, they will be told no, and the child will probably keep asking, but still.
And there is no way voting no will increase the number of homosexuals. A person is only homosexual if they were born more gay ... Read Morethan straight. If anything, it'll increase the number of people "coming out of the closet" because they won't be afraid of being persecuted. If things go well.
And what's it to you what some kid thinks?"

Philson Wong
October 30 at 9:44pm

(Please remember that this is a debate, not a place to shout in anger at each other)

On Morals:
- People base their morals on their own motivation. If they feel guilt, it is their conscience telling them that something's wrong. But people are ignoring their conscience and their ability to tell right from wrong, because of the amount of freedom we are give today. We should not have as much rights. I'm not saying that we shouldn't have rights like free speech and other social rights, but taking certain things too far will ultimately harm us, even if it seems right at the time.

Kyle Kneeland
October 30 at 9:45pm

Giving animals a fair chance isn't the same as them giving consent, they don't have the brain capacity to understand that concept. However, they don't have to think in order for somebody to stand up for them.

Marriage: A lasting bond between two loving, consenting adults.

Sky TheWolf
October 30 at 9:50pm

Ahh, Sumita, how would it affect you? Not to do anything in front of you? That's like asking the whole world not to do anything in front of you if it bothers, you, because you wan't it to be equal, right? You want the rights to be the same, right? Then that wouldn't be possible. That's like saying marriage between, excuse my language, blacks and whites aren't the same. Hispanic and Asian? Mexican and Phillipino? Really now. And it's not that part of the deal which bothers some people. So we really weren't argueing on that in the first place.

Now, for the children part. Traditional marriages and gay marriages not the same? Now you're just be contradictive. You want equal rights, and you want equal marriage for gays and straight alike, right? And now you're saying it won't be the same? It's either you contradicting yourself, or it's you contradicting against Kyle. Get both your facts straight.

And Sumita, how many times do I have to explain? Many times, more often than not, people are not born gay or straight. They discover it later in life, often after important life experiences. And personally, I said, I really don't mind gay people. I'm not discriminant against them or anything. I may be different from Philson than that. I'm just against, perhaps, the marriage sequence.

And also, for your comment "And what's it to you what some kid thinks?" You could be that kid! I could! Anyone could! Anyone could think anything and every thought matters. Now who's being discriminating?

Austin Wu
October 30 at 9:55pm

Gosh darn, this has gotten real intense. So I'm not going to bother reading all of the above.

Anyway, I was thinking about something I heard from Alicia, and I was wondering...

If the Declaration of Independence says that "they [all men] are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights ... and the pursuit of Happiness." If you were gay, and you were happy with your partner, shouldn't marriage by part of your "pursuit of happiness"?

Kyle Kneeland
October 30 at 9:58pm

Where'd Sumita talk about all that? xD Couldn't find it..

Sky TheWolf
October 30 at 10:00pm

Kyle, why are we arguing about this when this is about gay marriage vs. straight? I think you should give animals another chance in other cases anyway, because they're more intelligent than anyone can ever imagine.

Ahh yes, the definition. Well, that definition applies for good adult friends too. So? You have to be married to have that kind of bond? Friends and lovers can have that kind of bond anyway. Marriage is really just making it legal and official so the individuals are binded by promise. So you can start a family and have children. Unfortunately, that's not possible for gays. No matter what. Now I'm not saying that people with problems in their reproductive system don't have the right to get married either, that's different. By the way, I'm turning in for tonight, so I probably won't reply anymore for the day.

Sky TheWolf
October 30 at 10:02pm

Hm? Oh, other places/threads. I just put them together because she couldn't post on this more relavant one. And really, I'm not posting anymore tonight. I'm reaching my limit anyway.

Kyle Kneeland
October 30 at 10:04pm

Adoption. Gays can adopt kids and start their own family, just like anyone else. Besides, having children does not require you to be married, nor does being married require you to have children. My cousin has a 3 month old baby and has no plans to get married to his girlfriend yet, even though they still consider themselves a couple. My dad's best friends are married, and do not plan on having children. Marriage also gives rights to the couple. If one of the couple were to die and have no will, all possessions would go to the spouse, or the spouse would have a major say in where the possessions went. If they weren't married, they wouldn't have nearly as much position to decide. (Offline for the night also.)


Cynthia Chen
October 31 at 8:42pm

My mom didn't know what Prop 8 was so I tell her that it's the gay marriage thing. And she's like...THTS WRONG. So haha I use the same argument Austin did. Other than that, I have nothing else to say. My brain cannot work with a debate for long...Happy Halloween peepz!